Comment posted on How My Optin Email Marketing List Got Cut Down in Half in One Day by Alex
Hi Ana,
Firtly, congrats on your blog which I discovered thanks to SERPD. I have now added your RSS feed to my Google Reader! 
I’d like to get your view (and anyone else’s) about a concern regarding Double-Optins. If you do not use double-optin, those people who would have completed the double-opt procedure will still be on your list but in addition you’ll also have some other users which have shown some interest (filled out the form) but are less interested in what you have to offer. I really do not mind paying an extra 20$ a month to have those extra users on my list knowing that there are probably a few of those which are still clicking in my newsletters and showing interest (potential customer) but who would not have completed the double-optin procedure. I’m pretty sure I get more clicks (not clickthrough!) by having the double-optin turned off and I think that’s the most important. No?
Thanks for your insight!
Alex also commented
- Thank you Ana for your response.
I live in Canada but my websites are in France.
Concerning the new anti-spam legislation, at least in Canada, no where does it specify that a user has to double-optin to consider that he has given you permission to send him emails.“[...]uses a consumer opt-in approach, which stipulates that businesses must get express consent[...]”
Yes using double-optin is a “marketplace best practices” but someone should not blindly choose that option without examining both sides.
I wonder what percentage of Aweber users use double-optin vs single-optin.
- After thinking about it, I wanted to add something.
I will definitely get more clicks in my newsletters by turning off double-optin. There are more people on my list that can potentially receive my emails. But yes, my clickthrough and open rate will be much lower.
In your article, you say “the size of our list becomes one of the factors by which we measure our blogging success”. But by enabling double-optin and cleaning your list, you now measure your success using clickthrough and open rate and not number of clicks.
By having the double-optin disabled, I can still clean my lists by removing subscribers which have not opened my emails recently all the while growing my list faster and getting more clicks in my newsletters.
What other good reasons are there to enable the double-optin apart from augmenting the clickthrough and open rate and diminishing the spam complaints? It will not cost much more money to have a bigger list.
I really want to believe in double-optin but I am not yet convinced.
Thanks for everyone’s input
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{ 59 comments }
Thanks for the heads up, Ana.
Just like you, I was advised to turn the double optin off when I was starting out with Aweber.
I think they must be make it compulsory since they’re giving you an option to turn it on and off now.
I’ll be cleaning my list, so tired of paying for the dead bodies!
Thanks for sharing this.
Mavis
Mavis Nong invites you to read: Attraction Marketing – How I Promote My Blog and Command Attention on Facebook!
When I was on the phone with Aweber, they tried to tell me that even when the double-optin is off, it’s not entirely off - I couldn’t quite get how they keep tabs on this, but apparently they do.
Happy cleaning!
Ana | Traffic Generation invites you to read: Email List Building Secrets Your Thank You Page is Keeping from You
Good info about cleaning your list.
Years ago I used Get Response, but for a number of years now I’ve been using a software based system. I love it because I have complete control of my own list and don’t have to pay anything for keeping or mailing to the list. It’s an option that might work for some of your readers, too, depending on their needs.
Alison Moore Smith@Lifestyle Design invites you to read: Losing Pregnancy Weight
To be quite honest with you, Alison, I’ve never heard of anyone using a software of sorts for list keeping tasks…
I wonder why…
I might do some research into this, if I can ever find time.
Ana | Traffic Generation invites you to read: Link Building Tip- How to Do It the Smart Way
Yea great Post Anna,
Youve raised alot of good issues here and ur right, its better having a tiny responsive list than a big list with no relationships..
Didnt know about their pricing structure though..
have to check that out..
cheers
Jack Foley invites you to read: Have Faith and Move Forward
Good to see you, Jack.
Yes, many autoresponders structure their pricing that way. So it literally pays to keep your list clean and tidy.
Ana | Traffic Generation invites you to read: How to Build Links and Generate Traffic Using Web 20 Tools
As usual, another great tutorial. Thanks, Ana!
I have itty-bitty lists, so I’ve never played with AWebers advanced reporting screen.
Thanks for sharing your cleaning techniques. If nothing else, I can now make sense of the “open rate” statistic.
Cheers,
Mitch
N.B. The floating widget on the right side obscures the text of your posts (Firefox 3.6.15) It works fine in Chrome, so it may be a setting issue on my PC.
Mitchell Allen invites you to read: The Mama and the Messenger
You never know - one of these days you might get yourself a huge list you won’t know what to do with, Mitch.
…Oh, wait; you will know what to do with it - clean it up!
PS Thanks for letting me know. I use Firefox as well, the latest version, and it looks fine on mine.
Ana | Traffic Generation invites you to read: Content Writing vs Link Building- Chicken or the Egg
LOL! Good point, Ana. You just reminded me to bookmark this post
Cheers,
Mitch
P.S. Glad it’s not Firefox. Probably a setting or plugin on my profile.
Mitchell Allen invites you to read: The Mama and the Messenger
Ana, thanks for the eye opener. I am taking action on my list right at the next tab while typing this comment.
Cheers,
Jane.
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I hope it won’t be as bad as mine was, Jane.
Ana | Traffic Generation invites you to read: Link Building Tip- How to Do It the Smart Way
Hi Ana,
Firtly, congrats on your blog which I discovered thanks to SERPD. I have now added your RSS feed to my Google Reader!
I’d like to get your view (and anyone else’s) about a concern regarding Double-Optins. If you do not use double-optin, those people who would have completed the double-opt procedure will still be on your list but in addition you’ll also have some other users which have shown some interest (filled out the form) but are less interested in what you have to offer. I really do not mind paying an extra 20$ a month to have those extra users on my list knowing that there are probably a few of those which are still clicking in my newsletters and showing interest (potential customer) but who would not have completed the double-optin procedure. I’m pretty sure I get more clicks (not clickthrough!) by having the double-optin turned off and I think that’s the most important. No?
Thanks for your insight!
Alex invites you to read: Les e-pipes
After thinking about it, I wanted to add something.
I will definitely get more clicks in my newsletters by turning off double-optin. There are more people on my list that can potentially receive my emails. But yes, my clickthrough and open rate will be much lower.
In your article, you say “the size of our list becomes one of the factors by which we measure our blogging success”. But by enabling double-optin and cleaning your list, you now measure your success using clickthrough and open rate and not number of clicks.
By having the double-optin disabled, I can still clean my lists by removing subscribers which have not opened my emails recently all the while growing my list faster and getting more clicks in my newsletters.
What other good reasons are there to enable the double-optin apart from augmenting the clickthrough and open rate and diminishing the spam complaints? It will not cost much more money to have a bigger list.
I really want to believe in double-optin but I am not yet convinced.
Thanks for everyone’s input
Alex invites you to read: Les iphones en France - son histoire mérite notre souvenir
Very valid question, Alex.
The best answer to it you’ll find in one of the comments below from Ari Herzog: if you are located in the U.S. or Canada, it’s ILLEGAL for you to send out an email newsletter without a double optin.
Now if that doesn’t do it for you
, then here’s another thought, which made me switch back to double opt-in.
Metrics and analytics.
To know how effective your email marketing campaigns are you need to keep a close eye on who is opening what; what topics are hot; what headlines work the best; what time of the day you should send out your newsletter, etc.
If over half of your list NEVER opens your email, your metrics will be way off.
Obviously, choosing quantity over quality is absolutely your choice, other than that legal matter I mentioned above.
Ana
Ana | Traffic Generation invites you to read: Content Writing vs Link Building- Chicken or the Egg
Thank you Ana for your response.
I live in Canada but my websites are in France.
Concerning the new anti-spam legislation, at least in Canada, no where does it specify that a user has to double-optin to consider that he has given you permission to send him emails.
“[...]uses a consumer opt-in approach, which stipulates that businesses must get express consent[...]”
Yes using double-optin is a “marketplace best practices” but someone should not blindly choose that option without examining both sides.
I wonder what percentage of Aweber users use double-optin vs single-optin.
Alex invites you to read: Les e-pipes
Hi Ana,
Great advice on this. I really need to go clean up my list and I have been lazy about it. Thanks for the heads up on cleaning up the subscriber list!
Sherman
Sherman Smith invites you to read: Confused about SEO Then you need to look into SEOpressor!
You are welcome, Sherman.
I was lazy about it until it started costing me money.
Ana | Traffic Generation invites you to read: How to Build Links and Generate Traffic Using Web 20 Tools
As usual a rockin brilliant post from yourself.
What can I say you are great!
This stuff is gold dust.
I am hanging on to every word
Warmest
Phill
This is an Ode to Ana kind of comment from you, Phill - glad you stopped by!
Hey Ana,
I’ve always cleaned up my list because like you said, they’ll charge you for it down the road even though they unsubscribed. And I’m happy to say I’ve always had the double opt-in in place since building my list.
I’m thrilled to be able to report that I only have a few that haven’t opened theirs at all this year but I’m sure my list is no where near the size of your either. My open rate is really good too so I must be doing something right.
Great post and a great reminder for many.
Thanks for sharing.
Adrienne
Adrienne invites you to read: How to Get More Traffic to Your Blog By Sharing Free Reports
I will take good open rate over the size of the list any day, Adrienne - you are definitely doing something right!
Ana | Traffic Generation invites you to read: Email List Building Secrets Your Thank You Page is Keeping from You
This is a totally awesome tip. I have 29 lists for various things and am heading over to AWeber to do some major house cleaning. I really like the ideas of simply removing people that haven’t opened anything for months too. For anyone sending out regular emails low open rates can be very disheartening. This is a great way to help keep the hope alive.
Robert Dempsey@Internet Marketing Strategies invites you to read: Is Success In A Popular Niche a Foregone Conclusion
That’s exactly how I felt - disheartened, Robert.
No more though. Now I know that most people on my lists actually want to be there.
Ana | Traffic Generation invites you to read: How to Build a List- Rich Man- Poor Man List Building
Personally, I think you may be a bit trigger happy. Lots ‘o times, the one on the other end has no idea anything is amiss. ONE respectful well written personal email can easily turn a no to s yes and you’ve just saved a subscriber.
Dennis Edell@ Direct Sales Marketing invites you to read: Pro-Blogging Is it All About the Money
Interesting point, Dennis.
However, it suggests that a) my other email are disrespectuful
and b) if they haven’t opened a single email from me for 6 months, they will somehow decide to open this one.
I am not big on coaxing someone to please, please, please open my emails.
We all have our own approach, don’t we?
Ana | Traffic Generation invites you to read: How to Build a List- Rich Man- Poor Man List Building
A misunderstanding Ana.
1. In no way did I mean to imply your past mails were disrespectful. I’m just saying (for everyone reading this) that mails such as “Dude, not opening my mails? Wut up wit dat?” is not so good…..true story. lol
2. Not coaxing or coddling or any of that…it’s the “personal touch”.
Seriously, as I said some don’t even realize they did anything wrong, the “unconfirmed” is a good example of this. Many beginners especially don’t realize there is one, and delete it…some of them appreciate the followup email.
Just one example, but is this making more sense?
Dennis Edell@ Direct Sales Marketing invites you to read: Pro-Blogging Is it All About the Money
Not sure, Dennis.
After someone signs up for my list, they are taken to a page that asks them to please confirm their subscription.
Then the confirmation email I send out is very personal (too personal, as Aweber told me, but since they already approved it, there was nothing they could do about it
).
If after those two perfect explanations of what to do a new subscriber is still clueless, I don’t want them on my list.
Of course, that’s a personal choice, but I am looking for more seasoned clientele I suppose.
I do see a valid point in what you are saying though, Dennis, and for those bloggers who are just starting their list and each subscriber counts, your approach might work best.
Ana | Traffic Generation invites you to read: How to Build a List- Rich Man- Poor Man List Building
I don’t think a polite and well written new email is going to change people’s minds. If they haven’t confirmed yet most probably they won’t do it. And if they do, most probably you won’t get conversions from them. If someone is really interested on you they will sign up again.
I totally agree with your approach, Ana. Quality over quantity.
Cristina invites you to read: 5 Hábitos para reducir el estrés y mejorar tu productividad
I agree 110% that double opt-in is the only way to go. For both the legal reasons stated above in comments and for the practical reason that anybody who is going to be willing to actually open your e-mails and act on them is going to be willing to do a double opt-in.
Thanks also for the gentle reminder of doing some spring cleaning on my list. It has probably been a few months since I’ve gone through the steps of decreasing the list deadweight.
Steve@Internet Lifestyle invites you to read: 23 A-B Split Tests that Get More Subscribers for Your Email List
Thanks for coming by, Steve!
I absolutely agree on double-optin: having been on both sides, I like the confirmed side much better.
Ana | Traffic Generation invites you to read: How to Build a List- Rich Man- Poor Man List Building
Holy cow, a few hundred?? Talk about shedding a few email pounds there. Of course, that really does streamline your list, and I’d be curious to see what your numbers are now that you’ve removed the flakes who were skewing your results.
After all, it’s about measuring the people who care about you and what you have to say, right?
Personally, I’m always excited to see an email from you! It means there’s something I’m going to learn that I didn’t know before. Never fails. =)
Delena
Delena Silverfox invites you to read: 123Inkjets Coupon
If you think about it, it’s still the same list, i.e. the same number of readers, just looks a lot less intimidating up front.
Thanks for your loyalty and readership, Delena!
Ana
Ana | Traffic Generation invites you to read: Email List Building Secrets Your Thank You Page is Keeping from You
Ana I agree with you that quality versus quantity is what it’s all about. Period.
We live in a world, especially online where the belief that “bigger is better” rules. What a most ridiculous illusion to be victim to.
What I most like about what you’re doing is that you are taking control of your list by cutting away the dead wood so that you’re left with a responsive list.
There is no point in attempting to change the nature of your list as there will always be dead wood that floats in. You can’t control this by doing anything more than implementing the double op in which you’re already doing.
~Marcus
Marcus Baker@network marketing Internet business invites you to read: Don’t say Yes When You Mean No
Now I am looking for bigger quantity and quality in my list at the same time - wouldn’t that be great, Marcus!
Hi Ana:
This is something I REALLY need to do. I get frustrated with the unopens and have just let them sit there. I dont want to have to pay for people who don’t even open my brilliance!
Love that your back!
Lisa
Lisa@ list building invites you to read: The Best List I Ever Joined
Worst part for me was that I did start paying for the dead wait until I realized what I needed to do about it.
All better know.
Hi Ana,
Excellent tips.
So much power in a responsive list, so much fluff in a huge list of dead bodies….email marketing, wise
Trim the fat!
Thanks for sharing
RB
Ryan Biddulph invites you to read: Sizzling Hibachi- Fairness and Network Marketing…Lemme Explain!
I do enjoy my leaner healthier list, I must say, Ryan!
Ana | Traffic Generation invites you to read: Best Aweber Autoresponder Review You bet!
I don’t know where you live, Ana, but in both the United States and Canada (if not other countries) it is illegal to send someone an email newsletter (which an emailed blog subscription is) without double opt-in. Don’t risk being sued; include the double opt-in.
http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus61-can-spam-act-compliance-guide-business
http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/ecic-ceac.nsf/eng/h_gv00567.html
Ari Herzog invites you to read: Yes- You Can Steal This Blog
Very wise point, Ari, and I had no idea it was actually illegal.
All the more reason to make sure we all use double opt-in - stay on the right side of the law and build a healthier list.
Thanks for the link!
When I first read the title, I never had the impression that the article will talk about Aweber list building tips. I am in the process of building my first list and I hope that I will create a responsive list like the one you have right now. Thanks for sharing these useful tips.
Sathish @ TechieMania invites you to read: Why Do You Need To Write Consitently For Your Blog
You are very welcome, Sathish -glad these tips will be used when your list gets bigger.
Until then, here is the post that might really help with your list building, in case you didn’t see it before: https://trafficgenerationcafe.online/list-building-tips/
Ana
Ana - Good advice. Another reason to clean up your e-mail list is to protect against being blacklisted by e-mail hosts. Too many bounce backs or recipients that mark your e-mails as spam, and you could be at risk of getting blacklisted and not having your e-mails delivered at all. In particular if you use words that appear on e-mail spam filter lists (as an example “free”), I would recommend being vigilant about cleaning up your list as the combination of bounce backs and filtered words can land you on blacklists. The following is a list of 100 e-mail filtered word that can lead to trouble, particularly when used in subject lines. blog.mannixmarketing.com/2009/08/spam-trigger-words/
Randy Pickard invites you to read: My Blog Guest - A Review After Submitting 6 Posts
As always, wise advice, Randy.
Thanks for the link!
I read that post on John Chow’s blog earlier this month. I am using MailChimp now because it is free. I will eventually switch over to Aweber because they seem to be the Mailing List choice for most high traffic bloggers.
We’ve had quite a discussion about MailChimp in comments at this post: https://trafficgenerationcafe.online/best-aweber-autoresponder-review/
Aweber is definitely the way to go, Justin; I agree.
Ana
Ana | Traffic Generation invites you to read: How to Build Links and Generate Traffic Using Web 20 Tools
I remember doing this kind of cleanups with one of our project’s mailing lists on MailChimp, it’s always sad to see the REAL numbers behind the apparent ones, especially when you have this kind of no-openers behavior. However, it’s necessary as you say, so kudos for the nice heads up
GabrieIe Maidecchi invites you to read: Delirious Thoughts on How an Awesome Design Can Benefit Your Brand
Sad? Shocking!!!
This was my first-ever in-depth cleanup. Next time I will at least know what to expect.
Ana | Traffic Generation invites you to read: How To Determine Your Blog Weak Spots And How To Correct Them
Ana, again your voice on your blog
You write in a fresh and so detailed way 
)) I use Aweber and I agree absolutely about CLEANING! We have to be sure to write and work for people that cares about what we do. when I write some articles and I see people don’t read - or don’t open! my emails, really I get stunned. I have understood that internet is so full of information and people are surfing sometimes just for fun - they sign up but they don’t care really. Or they expect everything for free…
Hugs!
Elena@corsidimassaggioayurvedico invites you to read: La meditazione con l’olio essenziale di incenso…ma quanti tipi di incenso esistono! Aromaterapia pratica
It really is amazing how many people sign up for information just to never read the emails, Elena! Why then bother signing up?
As always, good to see you here.
Ana
Ana | Traffic Generation invites you to read: Email List Building Secrets Your Thank You Page is Keeping from You
Just to say some numbers: I sent a mail about a course I offer in april. Half of my list read the mail. One third of the people who opened the mail clicked on the link in the mail about the program. At the same time, one of my students, just because he likes me and how I work, signed up for the course almost immediately.
and who is not 
It is really important to know who is with you
Elena@corsidimassaggioayurvedico invites you to read: La meditazione con l’olio essenziale di incenso…ma quanti tipi di incenso esistono! Aromaterapia pratica
Ana,
I am with you on using aWeber. I have been so pleased with their service.
“Remember the goal: not the biggest list you can built, but the most responsive one.” Yes!
I appreciate this detailed training and I will follow your guide next time I am in updating my aWeber account.
Sheila Atwood invites you to read: I Said Blog Disclaimer and You Yawned
Glad to hear these tips will be used, Sheila. Hope you wouldn’t be as shocked as I was when I found out how big my true list was.
Ana | Traffic Generation invites you to read: Search Engine Ranking Tip- Perform a Colonoscopy on Your Blog
Hi Ana… I’m just starting to build my list through Aweber, and I didn’t know they charge per name in the database. That’s even more of an incentive to keep yous list clean.
I just sent out my first newsletter via Aweber this morning and when I look at my Quick Stats Summary, I can see who’s opening. What’s really cool is that you can instantly segment these subscribers into a sub-list. Of course my list isn’t big enough for this yet. But if you sell a product, I definitely see the value of having instant access to a hyper responsive audience.
You got my wheels turning!
Dahlia Valentine invites you to read: 646 Pageviews and 53 Click Thru’s My Traffic Experiment with SlideShare
So glad to hear that, Dahlia - it’s amazing what you can do with analytics, isn’t it?
Look forward to seeing your list grow!
Ana
Ana | Traffic Generation invites you to read: Think Outside the Blog- External Ways to Explode Your List
I really have to go clean up my list.. my open rate is usually around 30-40%, but I’m sure it could be much higher if I delete those who haven’t opened one in months..
thanks for sharing Ana
Hector Cuevas invites you to read: How To Never Run Out Of Things To Say – Guaranteed!
You are welcome, Hector - it makes a whole lot of business sense to do this every once in a while.
Ana | Traffic Generation invites you to read: How to Build a List- Rich Man- Poor Man List Building
Hi Ana,
Some good tips there, and since I thought aweber signed you up at certain levels, and not by subscriber, I would have been paying a lot more than I should. I like the dishwashing tip, too. Your dog can take over the task of rinsing the dishes before you put them in the dishwasher. Pretty neat!
Lou
Lou Barba@informationhighwaycardandgiftshop.com invites you to read: Too Much “Wait” Broke the Wagon
Yes, I am very good at dishing out cleaning tips, Lou.
I’ve been paying for a whole lot more subscribers than I should’ve; no more.
Ana | Traffic Generation invites you to read: Best Aweber Autoresponder Review You bet!
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